[Openmcl-devel] Errors Creating NSTimer

Phil pbpublist at comcast.net
Mon Oct 29 04:18:38 UTC 2007


Andrew,

I appreciate your taking the time to discuss this.  I definitely see  
myself in the 'left out' rather than 'led on' category but understand  
that Clozure needs to make paying the bills top priority.  I'm also  
confident that all the information being shared is accurate at the  
time it is communicated and that bit that I'm missing are the  
developments that happen and decisions being made in between  
communications.  I'd really love to see just a simple page on the  
Clozure site that attempted to capture the current thinking and plans  
(a bullet list of items really, encompassing the short and long term  
items you're pretty sure are going to happen as well as the more  
questionable items which fall into the 'things we'd like to do if we  
had the funding or help' category) at a high level as well as any  
major decisions that have yet to be made to give people an  
opportunity to contribute to the discussion.  It seems like it would  
be a good way to facilitate communication internally as well as with  
the community.

Just about everything I'm reading over on gmane and here sounds like  
good news long term.  I don't feel like my time has been wasted, just  
that there was a missed opportunity for my needs to be met with less  
effort on my part while helping Clozure and Clozure CL at the same  
time.  About the only changes to the survey I'd suggest is to replace  
the specific MCL functionality questions, which don't specifically  
apply to Clozure CL, with some of the broader questions that you guys  
are thinking about such as the platform-neutral vs. Mac-centric type  
questions.  Everyone is here for their own reasons but there's no  
reason you should need to guess what they are.

Thanks,
Phil

On Oct 28, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Andrew Shalit wrote:

> I wanted to respond to these messages from Phil and Brent.
>
> It's sometimes hard to strike the right balance between "leading  
> people on" and "leaving people out" when working on an open source  
> project, and we're still learning that.  The various pieces of  
> technology that Clozure has released or talked about recently --- a  
> Mac IDE, an Intel-32 port, EasyGUI, etc --- are all fairly new  
> developments.  At first we didn't talk about them because we didn't  
> know whether or not they would ever be real. Then we didn't talk  
> about them because we were all too slammed with other obligations  
> (e.g. paid work) to package things up and put a message together.   
> Finally, the situation with MCL forced us to prioritize getting  
> something out there even if it wasn't pretty.
>
> At this point I think it's safe to say that the IDE is real.  The  
> other two probably are, as well, but that would be contingent on  
> feedback from you folks that these are useful directions, and we  
> certainly don't have schedules.
>
> So, Brent, please don't throw out your high level GUI stuff just yet.
>
> And Phil --- We literally just realized (d'oh) that people could  
> use the 32-bit Intel port to access Carbon libraries.  We had  
> mostly been thinking about it in terms of getting to the installed  
> base of Linux and potentially Windows machines out there. (Yes, a  
> Windows port is another possible direction.  No, we haven't started  
> one.  Yes, we are interested.  If you'd like to work on it or fund  
> it, let us know. Please don't build your product plans on it unless  
> you hear more from us!)  We hadn't thought about its impact on the  
> Mac -- "Apple shipped 32-bit only Macs for such a short time, it  
> doesn't really matter," was mostly we thought about 32-bit Intel  
> and the Mac.  But you're right, you could use it to access Carbon  
> once it's finished.  And just to say it once more, we don't know  
> when that will be. So I hope we haven't wasted too much of your time.
>
> In terms of a survey for OpenMCL users: yes, we want to put that  
> together.  Meanwhile, if you have any feedback, or if you have  
> ideas for what directions we should go or what questions we should  
> ask on such a survey, let us know either on-list or via private e- 
> mail if you'd rather.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2007, at 1:20 AM, Brent Fulgham wrote:
>
>> I know Clozure is a company with its own goals and plans, and that  
>> OpenMCL isn't exactly a community project, but I was hoping that  
>> we would have seen more of the "Clozure CL" work being discussed  
>> on this list.  For example, I was kind of surprised to suddenly  
>> see the EasyGUI stuff appear in CVS without any hints that this  
>> was going on.  I had written a bunch of (probably crappy) code to  
>> do similar stuff for the Open Agent Engine port, which I guess  
>> I'll throw out now.  Probably no great loss to the Universe at  
>> large, but it feels like wasted time!
>>
>> I don't mean to sound to whiney -- I think OpenMCL is the best  
>> Lisp out there (and looks like it will be getting even better!),  
>> but it would be nice to have a better feel for what's being worked  
>> on, what kinds of tasks might be helpful to the overall project, etc.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Brent
>
> And on Oct 24, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Phil wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Fair enough and thanks for the reply.  You might want to think  
>> about running a similar survey here to what was posted on gmane  
>> (obviously tailored for Clozure CL users) and communicating things  
>> that are being worked on or would be if funding could be obtained  
>> (i.e. solicit contributions to see if, in aggregate, it can be  
>> funded.)  Maybe it is and I'm just not looking in the right  
>> place... in that case: where should I be checking?  You might be  
>> surprised to find some people willing to donate funds and/or time  
>> if it would help get some things done but may not individually be  
>> able to provide everything that is needed.  I was banging my head  
>> on my desk after reading that there apparently is a 32-bit Intel  
>> version coming... I spent ~6 months rewriting code in Obj-C  
>> because largely because it was previously stated that this wasn't  
>> going to happen.  Don't get me wrong: this is great news, but I  
>> would have happily donated some funds to help make this happen and  
>> spent those 6 months getting other things done on my end... but  
>> that didn't appear to be an option at the time so I went with plan B.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil




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