[Openmcl-devel] A plug for nx1-combination-hook

Glen Foy lisp at clairvaux.org
Mon Sep 7 18:21:02 UTC 2009


On Sep 7, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Terje Norderhaug wrote:

> On Sep 4, 2009, at 3:23 AM, Glen Foy wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Ron Garret wrote:
>>> IMHO, being able to actually run the more compact form would be a  
>>> big
>>> win for pedagogical purposes if nothing else.
>>
>> Many of us come from an MCL background, Clozure as well as list
>> members.  We are used to MCL's lean, even Spartan IDE.  We know  
>> that a
>> Lisp System doesn't need a lot of bells and whistles to be really
>> powerful.
>
> I am in the camp preferring a more spartan, focused IDE for myself,
> with just the functionality I need. But I can see the attraction of
> toolbars etc. It could be useful to have a variety of IDEs on top of
> a lisp environment, supporting the taste/needs of different  
> developers.

I agree, Terje.  MCL's IDE suited me fine.  I'm talking purely PR here.


>> The problem is new users don't know that.  Alex Repenning has
>> commented on this numerous times.  He teaches young programmers and
>> knows what he's talking about.  We need to give CCL some flash.   
>> Young
>> programmers are used to XCode and Eclipse.  They expect toolbars and
>> project managers.  They expect to be able to single step their code
>> and to set break points.  They expect to be able to push a button and
>> have their applications built and launched.  Etc, Etc. Etc.
>
> Flash could provide a positive first impression for new users.
> Another factor is immediate familiarity, giving them the feeling that
> they are at home, that they know what to do next. A lisp IDE modeled
> after XCode could be interesting, even if it might be less than
> optimal for savvy developers.
>
>> We need to be better salesmen for Lisp in general and CCL in
>> particular.  We need to package it better.  Presentation is
>> everything.
>
> Maybe something like LispBox but with an appealing IDE on top to
> attract new developers used to more fancy/flashy development
> environments than emacs?

The best solution might be an "IDE Construction Kit".

Rather than providing an IDE that the user MUST use, provide highly  
configurable components that the user can then mix and match and modify.

MCL, simply by being a CLOS application, is easy to modify and  
extend.  The MCL IDE is, in almost every way, hard to beat.  CCL's  
contribs directory and the require mechanism support this mix and  
match idea to some degree, but currently CCL is not a CLOS application.

What would a fully developed  "IDE Constuction Kit" be like?















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