[Openmcl-devel] Speed, compilers and multi-core processors
joswig at lisp.de
Wed May 20 08:45:01 UTC 2009
There was quite a lot research about this at the end of the 80s and
beginning of the 90s. There are several books published about parallel
programming models in Lisp.
To exploit parallelism in popular hardware one can see several
1) SIMD multimedia engines (Altivec, SSE, ...). Lisp in general
mostly missed this.
There were some assembler-based approaches and some Lisps are
using SSE for
FP computation. Problem: different CPUs offfer different types of
engines or none at all.
Btw., the first Connection Machines (CM1, CM2) were a giant SIMD
co-processor. The host (a Vax, SUN, Symbolics)
was running a Lisp, too - controlling the Connection Machine.
2) Multiple cores/processors running concurrent threads. Research,
experiments and some products in Lisp.
Due to 'Hyper-Threading' more than one thread may run on a core.
Currently we have laptops with two native threads (two cores).
Desktop computers already are offering
16 native threads (8 cores with two threads each / Hyper-
Threading) -> Mac Pro.
CPUs may offer more threads in the coming years -> 64, 256.
Existing examples are SUN's UltraSPARC T2 with
up to 64 threads.
The BBN Butterfly ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBN_Butterfly_computers
) computer ran a concurrent Scheme
and on top of this a Common Lisp was implemented.
3) GPUs. The LARGEST source of compute power for parallel
computation in desktop computers and even many laptops:
Graphic Processing Units. Apple works on that with OpenCL ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL
), a language
for programming CPUs, GPUs and DSPs based on C.
The idea is that GPUs can be used for general purpose computing
(GPGPU) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPGPU ).
Some GPUs now offer more than 1000 GFlops (ATI Radeon 4890: 1360
GFLOPS). Then you may put
more than one GPU card in your desktop PC. Compare that to
current CPUs offering in the range of 5 to 50 GFlops.
Glen Foy mentioned 512 cores in ten years from now. The GPU is
Can't remember Lisp mentioned in the area of GPGPU.
Definitely computing with GPUs is very attractive for scientific
processing: processing of images, videos, sound, etc.
Problem: this area is a moving target with rapidly changing
products. Apple's Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard)
will provide the foundations in the Mac area. I guess for the
Desktop and Laptop user it may bring
very interesting speed increases in the coming years, especially
in computing with multimedia data.
Conversions of video formats will run on the GPU. All kinds of
video effects will run on the GPU.
Music applications will render sounds on the GPU. Encryption,
physics computation, rendering, etc.
4) Distributed computing: Clusters, P2P, code mobility, ... Only some
research and some experiments in Lisp.
Erlang as programming language and runtime is notable in that
For some computing tasks it might not be enough to offer support for
multiple concurrent threads on a CPU, when the GPU approach beats it
by a factor of ten or even hundred. Most rendering, multimedia
processing, etc. will move to GPUs, I'd guess.
Larger experiments are running on clusters - similar to what Dan
Weinreb reports from their architectures at ITA.
Where does the multi-core-computing fit in? I'd say it is necessary to
support it, but for many applications I would see other approaches to
have advantages. Many network-applications and in the Lisp area many
symbolic applications will benefit from concurrent threads.
More about 2)
Clozure CL currently offers some support for 2), running threads on
There hasn't been much discussion lately of the problems of Common
Lisp running on multiple cores.
Again, one could identify several levels of support for multi-core
a) being able to run (native) threads on different cores. CCL does
b) the Common Lisp implementation is thread safe. Say, if LOAD,
DEFCLASS, COMPILE, are not reentrant, it
is assured that only one can run at any one time. There is more
to it, though.
c) Common Lisp constructs are thread safe and reentrant. Example: You
could run multiple DEFCLASS (mostly) in parallel
in one Lisp.
d) Common Lisp supports special programming facilities: futures,
queues, stm, data parallelism, etc.
A special challenge is the garbage collector. Today we have few
concurrent threads. In the near future one
may have 64 concurrent threads running on a desktop computer CPU. That
means when all 64 threads are
busy, they may produce garbage 64 times as fast as a single thread. So
it might be not that clever
to run the garbage generator with 64 threads and the garbage collector
with only one thread (while halting other
It would also be interesting to identify general issues with Common
Lisp with respect to implementing it with multiple concurrent threads
- for example to compare implementations and to identify areas where
implementations need to do something.
A useful 'conservative' approach is to advance the capabilities for
programming with concurrent threads. But if a user's application
domain offers chances for parallel computation, concurrent threads
might not be the best answer. For the average user, the GPU approach
could make a big difference in user experience in the next years - my
Am 19.05.2009 um 14:05 schrieb Alexander Repenning:
> not so fast ;-)
> The "how can we make use of multiple cores" is currently on the the
> hottest funding topics supported by NSF, DOE, Microsoft, .....
> Perhaps it is the Lisp way to look at architectures such as the x86
> and see mostly limitations when indeed there are plenty of
> opportunities. This is not about registers but about enabling end
> user programmers such as scientists to make use of parallelism. The
> big question is how to reconceptualize programming. One of the main
> problems is the need to overcome bad algorithmic assumptions
> especially the use of unnecessary loops. For instance, in
> Bioinformatics textbooks are full of loop based implementations of
> algorithms dealing with huge data structures such as gene sequences.
> In many cases one could replace sequential loops with parallel
> Zoom out of the low level view of things. What could multi core Lisp
> do? Look at the computational challenges that users are dealing
> with. Try to come up with new computational paradigms that could
> help. Lisp could be a great platform to explore these issues.
> Careful: if you can contribute to this you may actually receive
> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Brian Mastenbrook wrote:
>> On Mon, 2009-05-18 at 10:13 -0400, Glen Foy wrote:
>>> My ignorance of compiler design is breathtaking, but could multi-
>>> compiler techniques be used to compensate for Intel's register-
>> In a word, no.
> Prof. Alexander Repenning
> University of Colorado
> Computer Science Department
> Boulder, CO 80309-430
> vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf
> Openmcl-devel mailing list
> Openmcl-devel at clozure.com
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
mailto:joswig at lisp.de
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