[Openmcl-devel] Cocoa IDE support on Tiger

Gary Byers gb at clozure.com
Fri May 29 04:20:19 PDT 2009

On Fri, 29 May 2009, peter wrote:

> Not to hold anyone back, but could you leave on server (and label)
> the last valid Tiger version.
> BTW, is it possible to illuminate what should we expect re. Snow
> Leopard, will CCL run as normal [sic] (I'm assuming Clozure or others
> are 10.6 beta testers)?

Apple's NDA prohibits discussing pre-release software.

I can say that during the Leopard testing cycle everything was pretty
uneventful - early Leopard releases seemed to be a set of incremental
changes to Tiger - until the release that Apple gave to WWDC attendees;
that release contained a large number of significant changes and introduced
new bugs (one of which kept the ppc64 version of OpenMCL/CCL from running
at all under Leopard.)

This year's WWDC is coming up in a few weeks.  Based on the Leopard
experience, I'd say that even if I could say something about Snow Leopard,
I wouldn't do so.  (Yet.)

As the release of Snow Leopard approaches, the constraints on
discussing it will get more and more absurd.  I can at least say that
we are beta testers and that changes that're related to (beta versions
of) Snow Leopard and its toolchain were made before the CCL 1.3 release
and none have been made since, and I can say that none of those changes
are user-visible (don't affect CL or Cocoa bridge code and are fairly
obscure things deep in the lisp kernel and its makefiles.)

I do understand that people will want as much advance notice as
possible if any of this changes as the Snow Leopard release approaches
(if the then-current CCL release won't work under SL, or if
significant changes will be required to CL or CCL-specific user-level
code.)  The constraints of the NDA are real and Apple has lots of mean
lawyers, so it seems wise to err on the side of caution and observe
those constraints.  The best compromise seems to be to agree to howl
incoherently if any bad news develops between now and the final Snow
Leopard release, but refuse to say anything about what we're howling
about.  (We would not be able to confirm or deny whether the phrase
"Those idiots!  How hard can it be to write a linker ?" - should it
happen to appear in source comments or commit messages - is directed
at Apple.)

> At 4:57 PM -0400 09/05/28, R. Matthew Emerson wrote:
>> We've been making sure that the Cocoa IDE runs on Tiger (Mac OS X
>> 10.4).  There are, however, features in Leopard that I'd like to use,
>> and I was wondering what the general reaction would be to the idea of
>> making the Cocoa IDE require Leopard.
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