[Openmcl-devel] I made simple swank helper.

[Gary Byers]

On 05/13/2016 04:03 PM, Dmitry Igrishin wrote:
>
>
> 2016-05-13 20:02 GMT+03:00 Gary Byers <gb at clozure.com 
> <mailto:gb at clozure.com>>:
>
>     I don't use SLIME at all, largely because of the
>     :COMMUNICATION-STYLE :SPAWN issues
>     that Park Sungmin's patch tries to address and avoid.  I have
>     always assumed that people
>     who do use SLIME with CCL either don't notice those issues or
>     don't care about them as much
>     as I do, and that people who use SLIME with other implementations
>     don't experience the same
>     issues because of (possibly very subtle) implementation-dependent
>     details related to how
>     threads and dynamic/special variable bindings interact with each
>     other.  People do run into
>     those issues fairly often, and my explanations of those issues
>     seem to fall on deaf (or at
>     least very bored) ears.
>
> Gary, could you explain please your workflow on hacking Lisp without 
> using the SLIME? I've
> always considered it as a de facto standard free IDE for Lisp.
>
I usually us ilisp. which only works at all under xemacs.  ilisp 
development nominally stopped about
10-12 years ago, and whether or not xemacs is still being developed is 
unclear.  I don't think that
using ilisp is a desirable  option for anyone (including me)There have 
been other things that have bothered me about
SLIME (as well the communication-style/spawn issues), but I would move 
away from ilisp in a heartbeat
if not for those issues.

I -think- that most people would agree that selecting and executing a 
set of lisp forms from an editor buffer
should ideally be equivalent to (though perhaps more convenient than) 
executing the same set of forms by typing
them directly into a REPL in some sort of terminal window.  When the 
forms in question depend on and/or modify
the dynamic execution context (thread, and thread-specific dynamic 
variable bindings) in which they are executed, this
may not be true
Whether or not someone is affected by these issues and the degree to 
which they are likely depends on their editing
style and habits; people may find that it simply works better to select 
and execute an entire PROGN than it does to
select and execute each of that PROGN's subforms, even if they may not 
be entirely clear on on why this is the case.
see (for instance) 
<https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html>, 
where that
message was part of a discussion about apparent differences between what 
the language spec says and what some
widely-used QuickLisp package expects.





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