[Openmcl-devel] I made simple swank helper.

[Dmitry Igrishin]

2016-05-14 18:19 GMT+03:00 Gary Byers <gb at clozure.com>:

>
>
> On 05/13/2016 04:03 PM, Dmitry Igrishin wrote:
>
>
>
> 2016-05-13 20:02 GMT+03:00 Gary Byers <gb at clozure.com>:
>
>> I don't use SLIME at all, largely because of the :COMMUNICATION-STYLE
>> :SPAWN issues
>> that Park Sungmin's patch tries to address and avoid.  I have always
>> assumed that people
>> who do use SLIME with CCL either don't notice those issues or don't care
>> about them as much
>> as I do, and that people who use SLIME with other implementations don't
>> experience the same
>> issues because of (possibly very subtle) implementation-dependent details
>> related to how
>> threads and dynamic/special variable bindings interact with each other.
>> People do run into
>> those issues fairly often, and my explanations of those issues seem to
>> fall on deaf (or at
>> least very bored) ears.
>>
> Gary, could you explain please your workflow on hacking Lisp without using
> the SLIME? I've
> always considered it as a de facto standard free IDE for Lisp.
>
> I usually us ilisp. which only works at all under xemacs.  ilisp
> development nominally stopped about
> 10-12 years ago, and whether or not xemacs is still being developed is
> unclear.  I don't think that
> using ilisp is a desirable  option for anyone (including me)There have
> been other things that have bothered me about
> SLIME (as well the communication-style/spawn issues), but I would move
> away from ilisp in a heartbeat
> if not for those issues.
>
> I -think- that most people would agree that selecting and executing a set
> of lisp forms from an editor buffer
> should ideally be equivalent to (though perhaps more convenient than)
> executing the same set of forms by typing
> them directly into a REPL in some sort of terminal window.  When the forms
> in question depend on and/or modify
> the dynamic execution context (thread, and thread-specific dynamic
> variable bindings) in which they are executed, this
> may not be true
> Whether or not someone is affected by these issues and the degree to which
> they are likely depends on their editing
> style and habits; people may find that it simply works better to select
> and execute an entire PROGN than it does to
> select and execute each of that PROGN's subforms, even if they may not be
> entirely clear on on why this is the case.
> see (for instance)
> <https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html>
> <https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html>,
> where that
> message was part of a discussion about apparent differences between what
> the language spec says and what some
> widely-used QuickLisp package expects.
>
Thank you, Gary, for explanation. Sincere human communication now
deficiency, and this is sad.
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