[Openmcl-devel] talk on CCL

[Dan Corkill]

That’s my recollection as well...  Macs and PCs were hobbyist Lisp tools at the time.

> On Jan 5, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Robert Goldman <rpgoldman at sift.info> wrote:
> 
> In my experience, thinking back to the 90s, it was not Macs or other stock PCs that killed the lisp machines: it was a combination of Lucid Common Lisp (and perhaps to a lesser extent, Allegro), and Sun workstations on the competitive front, and the first big AI Winter on the demand front.
> 
> There was a AAAI Conference in Seattle in 1987 where there was a huge blowout, and the winter came rushing in quite soon after that.  There was a huge contrast between the lavishness of AAAI-87, and the following conferences.
> 
>> On 4 Jan 2020, at 15:57, Craig Lanning wrote:
>> 
>> As someone that has used a Lisp Machine for over two decades and owns
>> one (XL1201) even now, I would say that MBA's had more to do with the
>> death of the Lisp Machine (specifically Symbolics as a company) than
>> any specific Common Lisp implementation. Before you can talk about
>> replacing LispM's you need to know what the hardware was capable of
>> doing. A Mac is not even close. I developed a system on a Symbolics
>> 3620 and then deployed that 3620 to the customer site. It was used by
>> more than just our direct customer. I would not have attempted to
>> deploy a Mac to do that job.
>> 
>> Symbolics had an interactive interface builder on their Lisp Machines
>> for building Dynamic Windows interfaces. The builder application was
>> called Frame Up.
>> 
>> Craig Lanning
>> 
>> P.S. I have actually find Clozure CL to be slower than even SBCL.
>> Clozure CL is slower because it spends most of its time in the GC.
>> 
>>> On Sun, 2018-10-21 at 21:31 -0700, Chris Hanson wrote:
>>> As someone who’s studied their history, I seriously think that
>>> CCL/MCL is an under-acknowledged participant in the death of Lisp
>>> Machines: When you could use a Macintosh for development nearly as
>>> effectively as a Lisp Machine for barely a tenth the cost (or even
>>> less), and deploy on Macintosh as well, why spend all that money on
>>> specialized hardware? Especially since by the 1990s the Lisp Machines
>>> were falling far behind on performance.
>>> 
>>>  -- Chris
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Ron Garret <ron at flownet.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> " an intrepid band of hackers formed a little company called Coral
>>>> Software. And Coral Common Lisp was their product that they managed
>>>> to put together, and it came out in 1987, and … they had a Common
>>>> Lisp (it didn’t have CLOS, so it was CLTL1), [which] ran on a 1MB
>>>> Macintosh Plus, this incredibly weak hardware. So that was a real
>>>> accomplishment.”
>>>> 
>>>> Not only did they have a CL that ran on a 1MB Mac Plus, it had an
>>>> IDE!  And not only did it have an IDE, it had one of the best IDEs
>>>> ever.  You can still run it on emulators today, and it is still
>>>> usable — even competitive — today.  It had an interactive interface
>>>> builder that is still to this day superior to anything I have seen
>>>> anywhere.  I still miss it.  (I used the original CCL to do my
>>>> masters thesis back in 1987 and it spoiled me on IDEs for
>>>> life.  I’ve been a grumpy old man ever since.)
>>>> 
>>>> I would rank the original CCL as a technical achievement on a par
>>>> with the Macintosh itself.
>>>> 
>>>> rg
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 18, 2018, at 5:12 PM, R. Matthew Emerson <rme at acm.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I was invited to give a talk at this year’s European Lisp
>>>>> Symposium in Marbella, Spain.  It was a great conference.  I
>>>>> highly recommend that you try to attend next the next one if you
>>>>> possibly can.  It will be in Genoa, Italy.  See
>>>>> https://european-lisp-symposium.org.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, I prepared a web site that contains a video of the talk
>>>>> and also a written transcript with slides included in the text in
>>>>> the appropriate places.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The link is http://thisoldlisp.com/talks/els-2018/
>>>>> 
>>>>> It’s not really very technical in nature (it’s meant to be
>>>>> entertaining and encouraging), but maybe some of you would enjoy
>>>>> it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Openmcl-devel mailing list
>>>>> Openmcl-devel at clozure.com
>>>>> https://lists.clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel
>>>> 
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