<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>I made two points:</div><div><br></div><div>1) Have navigation between sites. Clozure has many sites but no obvious navigation *between* the sites. In some of the sites there is a navigation for that particular site, e.g., the wiki, but this does not really help users to find they way to other sites. Have one common navigation that will essentially result in a hierarchical navigation. </div><div><br></div><div>Don't take this literally but this is just a sketch to illustrate the point. Not sure how I can make more sense.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><img height="52" width="249" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:E258314B-5705-4E13-A0E8-98634A01A6FB@wp.comcast.net"></div><div><img height="44" width="691" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:81FC8459-5AB3-41D5-9226-F92C75163A40@wp.comcast.net"></div><div><img height="39" width="691" apple-width="yes" apple-height="yes" src="cid:463556DA-1D4C-4036-9C5C-08197D7C3727@wp.comcast.net"></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>2) Be nice. The supposedly humorous comments are not well received by some. I have had a number of developers write me indicating that they are quite displeased about the hostile tone on the Clozure mailing list. Don't shoot the messenger. </div><div><br></div><div>alex </div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Apr 26, 2009, at 12:12 AM, Gary Byers wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Please make more sense.<br><br><br>On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, Alexander Repenning wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">The golden rule of user interface design 101 is that if multiple users are confused about something there is usually no point for the designer of the interface to claim that he or she does not find it confusing. People are trying to help you and you are basically belittling these comments.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I did not make that particular comment regarding the trac page. As I said before, I find the site as a whole a bit confusing not any particular page. Look, what most of us want to do is to get some general information, download the app, access the source, and get some support. This is pretty basic stuff. It is great that you offer all of these pages/sites:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://trac.clozure.com">http://trac.clozure.com</a> <a href="http://ccl.clozure.com">http://ccl.clozure.com</a> <a href="http://svn.clozure.com">http://svn.clozure.com</a> <a href="http://openmcl.clozure.com">http://openmcl.clozure.com</a> <a href="http://www.clozure.com/">http://www.clozure.com/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am not even sure I found them all. The issue is quite simply that there is NO SINGLE NAVIGATION that is common to all these sites. Even the most simple navigation tab structure (e.g., Home, Download, Support, ...) shared between the sites would work wonders. Make it a frame it you must. Finding the right link somewhere on some page to move from one site to another IS confusing.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This may not be the worlds greatest example but it does feature the kind of navigation that the Clozure site is missing: <a href="http://www.openoffice.org">http://www.openoffice.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thanks but no thanks to the dancing girls ;-) but navigation would be nice.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Alex<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Apr 25, 2009, at 10:32 PM, R. Matthew Emerson wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The Trac page (<a href="http://trac.clozure.com/ccl">http://trac.clozure.com/ccl</a>) seems pretty clear to me.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There is a table on that page in the section called "Getting Clozure<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">CL" that includes links to archives for all the platforms. Maybe I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">should put some animated dancing girls or something next to it so that<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">it stands out better.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Prof. Alexander Repenning<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">University of Colorado<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Computer Science Department<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Boulder, CO 80309-430<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">vCard: <a href="http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf">http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Prof. Alexander Repenning</font></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">University of Colorado</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">Computer Science Department</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">Boulder, CO 80309-430</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">vCard: <a href="http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf">http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf</a></font></p><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div> </div><br></body></html>