<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On May 27, 2009, at 6:17 AM, Raffael Cavallaro wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>On May 26, 2009, at 9:45 PM, Alexander Repenning wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Detailed issues: 80% of the examples do not run as condition<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is thrown about TITLE missing. It would be good if the example code<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">within the examples was uncommented and ran on 'compile and load <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">file'.<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>With respect, these defects are particular to xlui and its example <br>code (which is commented out, and which often throws errors when <br>executed complaining of TITLE missing). They have nothing to do with <br>CCL itself.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>yes, completely true. I just dumped the entire comment into the email. That specific "bug" is about not having evaluated the class definitions in the example code before. The suggestion of uncommenting is probably a good one. Will do for the next release.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The IDE is abysmally bad to the point of becoming a mockery of <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Lisp. Extremelly unstable, beach balls all the time seemingly for <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">no reason at all, lack of customization, stupid defaults, alien <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">look & feel with no relevance to Apple HIG. Most importantly: It <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">does not inspire confidence for someone to make the investment and <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">learn/use lisp.<br></blockquote></blockquote><br>And these are, at base, really all about Hemlock. I've felt similar <br>things myself at times. In just about every case, I could trace the <br>instability to Hemlock, not CCL itself.<br><br>That said, I think the CCL maintainers (i.e., Clozure) could do <br>themselves a big favor in terms of perception if they either replaced <br>Hemlock entirely, or reviewed its code closely. It's filled with bugs <br>whose affects are glaringly obvious to casual users, and which give <br>the false impression that all of CCL is as unstable as Hemlock. <br>Recently an "interesting" behavior has appeared in trunk: a Cmd-V <br>paste will do nothing for over a full second, then the pasted text <br>will suddenly appear. I suppose this is better than having it paste <br>the wrong text as it formerly did, but it makes CCL look much lamer <br>than it actually is.<br><br><br></div></blockquote><br></div><div>I agree, the curb appeal of the CCL/IDE is not great right now. I wonder if the person making the comment actually does like any of the existing Lisp IDEs such as LispWork or Allegro. I am guessing he/she would not like them either. Even the Mac version of LispWorks does not really try to deal with Apple's HIG. I actually think CCL does already a better job at that. With some more work the instability will hopefully go away but some of the other issues raised would probably require a much more significant redesign. </div><div><br></div><div>Incidentally, I noticed that Lisp sources in Google code do get some (must be pre CLOS) Lisp syntax coloring. Have a look at this (not the actual content) and notice how Google code marks the code up in some interesting ways: </div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://code.google.com/p/xmlisp/source/browse/trunk/XMLisp/sources/Lisp%20User%20Interface/Camera.lisp">http://code.google.com/p/xmlisp/source/browse/trunk/XMLisp/sources/Lisp%20User%20Interface/Camera.lisp</a></div><div><br></div><div>When the code comes up you may initially see the black and white versions for a split second before the colorization does its work. Have a look at the HTML source of that page.</div><div><br></div><div>alex</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">Prof. Alexander Repenning</font></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">University of Colorado</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">Computer Science Department</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px">Boulder, CO 80309-430</p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">vCard: <a href="http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf">http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf</a></font></p><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div> </div><br></body></html>