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    <tt>Bill:<br>
      <br>
      I didn't see the message from you (presumably because of problems
      with my spam filter), but I did<br>
      see (and hopefully can reply to) this reply.<br>
      <br>
      As far as you know, would people who use SLIME with CCL and want
      to avoid at least many of the<br>
      problems with :communication-style :spawn be able to do so by
      using SLIME-REPL, at least until<br>
      someone cam figure out how to make SWANK-HELPER easier to load?<br>
      <br>
      (asked in very genuine ignorance of what "SLIME-REPL" is ..)<br>
    </tt><br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/14/2016 05:47 PM, Dmitry Igrishin
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAP+w2Gpt=aLK_4xtKtQJZoKc-3j-KWMKS_yHDSM4+o5Y3EcQow@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">Hi Bill,
        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">2016-05-14 18:37 GMT+03:00 Bill St.
            Clair <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:wws@clozure.com" target="_blank">wws@clozure.com</a>></span>:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div style="font-size:small">I finally looked at the
                  swank-helper package, and played with my Slime a
                  little bit to determine why I’ve never noticed the
                  problem. It’s my style of using Slime. I evaluate
                  random forms in the *slime-repl ccl* buffer, which
                  uses a single thread. The only evaluation I do from
                  other lisp buffers is recompiling defining forms in
                  file buffers. For that it very rarely matters that a
                  new thread is spawned each time. So rarely that I have
                  never had a problem with it.</div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div>I don't tried the another IDE for Lisp called SLY - <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://github.com/capitaomorte/sly"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/capitaomorte/sly">https://github.com/capitaomorte/sly</a></a></div>
            <div>but it looks interesting at the first glance. I'll try
              it at leisure. </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">
                  <div>
                    <div class="h5">On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:19 AM,
                      Gary Byers <span dir="ltr"><<a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:gb@clozure.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gb@clozure.com">gb@clozure.com</a></a>></span>
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                    0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                    <div>
                      <div class="h5">
                        <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span> <br>
                            <br>
                            <div>On 05/13/2016 04:03 PM, Dmitry Igrishin
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">2016-05-13
                                    20:02 GMT+03:00 Gary Byers <span
                                      dir="ltr"><<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:gb@clozure.com"
                                        target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gb@clozure.com">gb@clozure.com</a></a>></span>:<br>
                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                      style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I
                                      don't use SLIME at all, largely
                                      because of the
                                      :COMMUNICATION-STYLE :SPAWN issues<br>
                                      that Park Sungmin's patch tries to
                                      address and avoid.  I have always
                                      assumed that people<br>
                                      who do use SLIME with CCL either
                                      don't notice those issues or don't
                                      care about them as much<br>
                                      as I do, and that people who use
                                      SLIME with other implementations
                                      don't experience the same<br>
                                      issues because of (possibly very
                                      subtle) implementation-dependent
                                      details related to how<br>
                                      threads and dynamic/special
                                      variable bindings interact with
                                      each other.  People do run into<br>
                                      those issues fairly often, and my
                                      explanations of those issues seem
                                      to fall on deaf (or at<br>
                                      least very bored) ears.<br>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>Gary, could you explain please
                                      your workflow on hacking Lisp
                                      without using the SLIME? I've</div>
                                    <div>always considered it as a de
                                      facto standard free IDE for Lisp.</div>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </span> I usually us ilisp. which only works
                          at all under xemacs.  ilisp development
                          nominally stopped about<br>
                          10-12 years ago, and whether or not xemacs is
                          still being developed is unclear.  I don't
                          think that <br>
                          using ilisp is a desirable  option for anyone
                          (including me)There have been other things
                          that have bothered me about<br>
                          SLIME (as well the communication-style/spawn
                          issues), but I would move away from ilisp in a
                          heartbeat<br>
                          if not for those issues.<br>
                          <br>
                          I -think- that most people would agree that
                          selecting and executing a set of lisp forms
                          from an editor buffer<br>
                          should ideally be equivalent to (though
                          perhaps more convenient than) executing the
                          same set of forms by typing<br>
                          them directly into a REPL in some sort of
                          terminal window.  When the forms in question
                          depend on and/or modify<br>
                          the dynamic execution context (thread, and
                          thread-specific dynamic variable bindings) in
                          which they are executed, this<br>
                          may not be true<br>
                          Whether or not someone is affected by these
                          issues and the degree to which they are likely
                          depends on their editing<br>
                          style and habits; people may find that it
                          simply works better to select and execute an
                          entire PROGN than it does to<br>
                          select and execute each of that PROGN's
                          subforms, even if they may not be entirely
                          clear on on why this is the case.<br>
                          see (for instance) <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html"
                            target="_blank"><https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html></a>,
                          where that<br>
                          message was part of a discussion about
                          apparent differences between what the language
                          spec says and what some<br>
                          widely-used QuickLisp package expects.<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <span class="">_______________________________________________<br>
                      Openmcl-devel mailing list<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:Openmcl-devel@clozure.com"
                        target="_blank">Openmcl-devel@clozure.com</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://lists.clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel"
                        rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel</a><br>
                      <br>
                    </span></blockquote>
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