<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I wrote the drag-and-drop.lisp contribution for Fred, back when drag & drop was new.  The ability to create a mixin class with that level of integration was absolutely amazing.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Good times!<br class=""><div class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: -webkit-auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: -webkit-auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><font class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">--------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="">Dan S. Camper<br class="">Thaumaturge</font></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 5, 2022, at 10:48 AM, Ralf Stoye <<a href="mailto:stoye@stoye.com" class="">stoye@stoye.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
  
  <div class="">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">MCL had multithreading long before the
      OS had it: <br class="">
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">It was a cooperative Multithreading
      build on stack-groups: the compiler inserted checks and
      task-switches; there existed run-reasons and arrest-reasons; <br class="">
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">you could even adjust how gentle it
      should be in Multifinder regarding other applications (something
      like *eventloop-ticks-in-background* ? (Memory is Fading)</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">A remarkable piece of Software!</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I started with 1.3 when it was
      delivered by Apple (1988?)</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Last Version i bought was 4.2 (PPC i
      think)</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">I used fred (the editor) to implement a
      Software for a historian who had to analyse about 100 Interviews,
      each about 50 Pages. She had a hierarchical List of Topics
      regarding different aspects of the live of these persons and could
      assign these topics to pieces of these textdocuments and thanks to
      freds notion of buffer-marks, you could even edit the documents
      without destroing your marked "text-blocks" ; Finally an export of
      a really big Index showing reasons for Arrest, work, living, of
      the victims was created in rtf Format and used to Document the
      History of "Die Frauen von Hoheneck": A group of Woman arrested
      for being not Conform to DDR politics. The created material was
      used to write two Books: one for a historic correct analysation of
      the Topic (a German "Enquete-Kommission"), and a novel about
      theese People ("Die Spur der roten Sphinx"). I learned a lot about
      german and russian history during that work, because the historian
      was a really smart Person, and i learned a lot about using MCL to
      its limits.<br class="">
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">It was really fun to develop in MCL, i
      never found a replacement :-/<br class="">
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 05.03.22 um 17:17 schrieb mikel
      evins:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:027B3B9C-5586-4093-8056-D0D9149FBC52@me.com" class="">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
      My memory is that the UI framework in Object Lisp and, later,
      CLOS, was much easier and more convenient to work with than other
      ways of building classic Mac user interfaces. One reason is that
      you could build up a UI interactively in real time by evaluating
      Lisp expressions at the Listener. After the transition to CLOS,
      you could make a working window that responded appropriately to
      mouse events by saying
      <div class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">  (make-instance 'window)<br class="">
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">I don't remember the exact Object Lisp syntax, but it was
            similarly simple.</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">The Mac got threads in System 7, in the form of the
            Thread Manager. If I remember right, MCL/CCL didn't get
            thread support until the OpenMCL fork, though you could have
            used MCL's toolbox interface to talk to the Thread Manager
            before that.</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">Before OSX the Mac system was a cooperative multitasking
            system using what is nowadays called green threads.</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On Mar 5, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Tim McNerney
                <<a href="mailto:mc@media.mit.edu" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">mc@media.mit.edu</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
                <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
                  charset=UTF-8" class="">
                <div dir="auto" class="">Thanks for pointers to the
                  “digital orphans” web museums. 
                  <div class="">Which brings me back to my other
                    question…</div>
                  <div class="">Some of us remember that building a
                    “well behaved GUI” for the Mac was a pain to code.</div>
                  <div class="">Did ObjectLisp and successors make this
                    any easier with their OOness?</div>
                  <div class="">Could I implement widgets that responded
                    to mouse clicks “on their own,”</div>
                  <div class="">or was there always editing of the
                    dreaded “main event loop” for each new widget?</div>
                  <div class="">Some examples, if handy, would be good
                    fodder for conversation.</div>
                  <div class="">Lastly, when did MacOS get full-fledged
                    threads?</div>
                  <div class="">Or, since I’m taking to MCL devs, when
                    did CCL start supporting threads?<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">--Tim</div>
                    <div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">On Mar 4, 2022,
                        at 13:23, Jeremy Jones <<a href="mailto:jaj@clozure.com" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">jaj@clozure.com</a>>
                        wrote:<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">Thanks Gene! They
                          appear to have disk images of lots of old
                          stuff.
                          <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto" class="">They even have MCL
                            1.3 (pre-CLOS)!</div>
                          <div dir="auto" class=""><a href="https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp</a> <br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto" class="">I've been wanting to
                            play with Object Lisp. A weekend project! </div>
                          <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br class="">
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar
                            4, 2022, 11:37 AM Gene Z. Ragan <<a href="mailto:gene@semitone.audio" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">gene@semitone.audio</a>>
                            wrote:<br class="">
                          </div>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                            #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                            <div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">The Macintosh Garden is a nice
                              resource for classic software releases.
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class=""><a href="https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-common-lisp-20" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-common-lisp-20</a></div>
                              <div class=""><a href="https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/pearl-lisp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/pearl-lisp</a></div>
                              <div class=""><a href="https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp</a></div>
                              <div class=""><a href="https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/xlisp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/xlisp</a></div>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="">You may be able to find what
                                you are looking for there.</div>
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="">Gene<br class="">
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                    <div class="">On Mar 3, 2022, at
                                      10:26 PM, Tim McNerney <<a href="mailto:mc@media.mit.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">mc@media.mit.edu</a>>
                                      wrote:</div>
                                    <br class="">
                                    <div class="">
                                      <div dir="auto" class=""><span class="">Motivated by my
                                          recent purchase of a
                                          refurbished Mac Classic (*),</span>
                                        <div class="">I am searching for
                                          a couple of types of
                                          “prehistoric” software. 
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div class="">1) 68000 MCL
                                              that runs in 4MB of RAM
                                              and a tiny B/W screen.
                                              (**)</div>
                                            <div class="">2) examples of
                                              early Mac apps written in
                                              MCL with decent UIs.</div>
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">(*) With a
                                              BlueSCSI SSD instead of a
                                              fragile HDD.</div>
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="">Is the rumor
                                              true that Coral Software
                                              delivered a complete
                                              Common Lisp </div>
                                            <div class="">compressed
                                              onto a single 9cm floppy?
                                              (3 1/2”)</div>
                                            <div class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div class=""><span class="">(**)
                                                I’m not looking for one
                                                of these physical
                                                floppies. </span></div>
                                            <div class=""><font class=""><span class="">9cm floppies
                                                  were notorious, even
                                                  brand new, of not
                                                  being archival. </span></font></div>
                                            <div class=""><font class=""><span class="">Some sort of
                                                  disk image would be
                                                  better. <br class="">
                                                </span></font><br class="">
                                              <div dir="ltr" class="">--Tim</div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
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                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br class="">
                              </div>
                            </div>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
STOYE - Networked Solutions
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+49 163 6920050
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoye@stoye.com">stoye@stoye.com</a></pre>
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