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With respect to pattern matching I hear good things about the Trivia
library, which adds the capability to Common Lisp:<br>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/guicho271828/trivia/wiki/What-is-pattern-matching%3F-Benefits%3F">https://github.com/guicho271828/trivia/wiki/What-is-pattern-matching%3F-Benefits%3F</a><br>
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I haven't used Trivia, but if it is as good as it seems, it
shouldn't be necessary to add it to Common Lisp itself. Likewise
with your (David's) Actor system, which is excellent.<br>
<br>
As Ron says, the focus should be on the M1 port of CCL, and
supporting its users afterward. Anything that can be added with a
library should be.<br>
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-SS<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/5/24 12:43 PM, David McClain
wrote:<br>
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I hate to cause any deviations, but…
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<div>Since the 1980’s when SML came along, we have been
increasingly influenced by the FPL community. Add to that the
work of Carl Hewitt and Actors, and the fact that we now have
multi-core machines and SMP, and the fact (which I can strongly
defend) that Actors is the way to best utilize multiple cores
and SMP…</div>
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<div>Perhaps we need an evolution of Lisp to include pattern
matching as a fundamental part of the language. More than a
Common Lisp as we now know it. CL is great insofar as being a
good substrate for implementing all these wonderful new ideas.
But patten matching has become so prevalent that is now feels
like a serious omission from CL.</div>
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<div>On Jan 5, 2024, at 12:34, Tim McNerney
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mc@media.mit.edu"><mc@media.mit.edu></a> wrote:</div>
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<div> There is value in when you are saying, Nicolas.<br>
<br>
Since Clozure Associates dissolved its LLC and its
founders retired,<br>
it is now up to <u>us as a community</u> to carry the
torch and maintain CCL.<br>
There is no "somebody else" to do it for us. <br>
We all have to answer questions.<br>
We all have to fix bugs. <br>
We all have to make sure bug fixes are tested, checked
in, and patches created.<br>
There is an argument that a smaller "core" of
maintainers oversee releases,<br>
but if we keep adding to a regression suite and are
diligent about running it,<br>
anyone should be able to make a release, as long as they
keep in communication.<br>
Where "release" means a carefully curated and
extensively tested build.<br>
<br>
As for CCL's "demise being greatly exaggerated," I've
been seeing clear evidence that<br>
there is decreasing opportunity to run a viable business
licensing proprietary CLs.<br>
Open source Common Lisps are the way to go.<br>
My apologies to the maintainers of SBCL, but it is
weighed down by lots of pet projects.<br>
CCL is a highly optimized, complex-but-lean, "diamond."<br>
I back the "diamond" approach.<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/5/24 2:13 PM, Nicolas
Martyanoff wrote:<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Ron Garret <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ron@flownet.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><ron@flownet.com></a> writes:
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Jan 5, 2024, at 5:41 AM, Tim McNerney <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mc@media.mit.edu" moz-do-not-send="true"><mc@media.mit.edu></a> wrote:
It's not too late to fix this flaw. What's the harm?
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Bikeshedding. If we don't get the M1 port done, CCL is dead. We need to focus.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">While I have no doubt that not having a M1 port is a deal breaker for
developers working on MacOS, I would argue that the lack of regular
releases and the multitude of open issues and pull requests (i.e. the
lack of maintenance) is what is killing CCL.
Running on Apple Silicon is not going to fix the multitude of issues you
might encounter on any platform. As an example, a couple months ago I
try starting to write a patch for CCL, spent way too much time trying to
decipher code with no comment or type declaration, then realized that
CCL would randomly segfault when rebuilding itself (Linux/x86_64).
Google showed me at least one person having encountered the exact same
problem before, and zero answers. I went back to SBCL and will probably
drop CCL support from my projects because what is the point?
I fully understand that no one at Clozure has the time or money to
invest on CCL and I'm not blaming anyone; it is already admirable of
them to have built CCL and released it under a free license. But
This is just what happens in the Open Source world when no one forks an
unmaintained project, especially for a language which while not dead is
starting to smell really funny.
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