[Openmcl-devel] Lisp User Interface LUI (was: Currency Converter Example)

Alexander Repenning ralex at cs.colorado.edu
Wed Jan 7 17:10:37 PST 2009

+ looks like a great web dev tools
-  only a  web dev tool
- objective-j is pretty snappy for basic UI stuff but would be hard  
pressed for performance 3D OpenGL rendering

+ is pretty solid
+ does have the native look and feel which is important to us
+ is much more snappy than Java Swing
- potentially tricky integration with JOGL (OpenGL) to get 3D working
- JVM, JRE overhead is considerable

Ideally, we would have a GUI wrapper that provides good access to  
Cocoa on OS X. We like Cocoa now ;-) Cocoa may also be a way to move  
to iPhone iPod Touch. What would fit our needs the best would just be  
anything working on Windows making simplifying creating compatible,  
Cocoa-esque wrappers for Windows. An officially Apple supported tool  
such as this (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/A35C23B9-BD22-4478-BC30-4111CFC360B5.html 
) would be ideal.


On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:44 AM, Gary Byers wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, Ron Garret wrote:
>> On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:30 AM, Alexander Repenning wrote:
>>> This may be a good moment to discuss some of the ideas regarding  
>>> the creation of LUI, the "Lisp User Interface as a cross platform,  
>>> but Mac first" open source GUI tool.
>>> At this point a very early prototype exists for CCLmac Intel/PPC  
>>> with classes implemented in Cocoa including: buttons, windows,  
>>> sliders, labels, editable text, images, sound, speech, Web browser  
>>> view, OpenGL, ..
>>> The main question is how to bring this to Windows or more  
>>> specifically to CCL windows. Who has some ideas, time to hack  
>>> stuff, experience with Windows lisp hacking etc. Some ideas tossed  
>>> around so far are: Cocotron, GNUstep, native win32, .NET,
>> http://cappuccino.org/
>> rg
> Another candidate that's worth looking at is SWT
> (<http://www.eclipse.org/swt/>).
> Some advantages:
> - it's mature, relatively featureful, and supports native look-and- 
> feel
>   on a wide variety of platforms
> - it's largely implemented in native (non-Java) code; performance  
> issues
>   that may have affected other Java UI toolkits apparently don't  
> affect
>   SWT
> - there's a small army of people working on it and there are many
>   commercial and open-source projects (including Eclipse) that  
> depend on
>   it
> Some disadvantages:
> - SWT's OSX support is still 32-bit and Carbon based, though the  
> intent is
>   to provide 64-bit (I think ...) Cocoa support (I'm sure) in the next
>   release
> - CCL's support for Java is embryonic;  it's not clear if or how it'd
>   be possible to do some of the things (subclassing foreign classes at
>   runtime, etc.) that're possible in ObjC, and it'd probably require  
> some
>   thought to determine how best to integrate Java and CCL.
> What support is there (in the trunk) is a port of Rich Hickey's 'jfli'
> Java<->CL interface which seems complete enough to run a very simple
> SWT demo.  (Except for the 64-bit OSX issues, this demo should work on
> all platforms that CCL 1.3 will run on, assuming that the SWT classes
> and shared libs can be found.)  How near or how far that is from
> providing a useful and usable portability layer (does "write once, run
> anywhere" sound familiar ?) is hard to know.

Prof. Alexander Repenning

University of Colorado
Computer Science Department
Boulder, CO 80309-430

vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf

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