[Openmcl-devel] Lisp User Interface LUI (was: Currency Converter Example)

Christopher McClelland c.mcclelland at qub.ac.uk
Wed Jan 7 17:18:23 PST 2009

Hi all,

Surely something similar to HotCocoa could be possible:  http://www.macruby.org/trac/wiki/HotCocoa 
  - apart from a few bugs, and limited functionality (so far) it works  
very well.

Another interesting GUI project (+ cross platform) is Why's 'Shoes': http://github.com/why/shoes/tree/master

I've completed a couple of projects with cappuccino and I think it's  
barking up the wrong tree for this problem.

Best wishes,


- sent this a few days ago but it didn't arrive on the list :(

On 8 Jan 2009, at 01:10, Alexander Repenning wrote:

> http://cappuccino.org/
> + looks like a great web dev tools
> -  only a  web dev tool
> - objective-j is pretty snappy for basic UI stuff but would be hard  
> pressed for performance 3D OpenGL rendering
> + is pretty solid
> + does have the native look and feel which is important to us
> + is much more snappy than Java Swing
> - potentially tricky integration with JOGL (OpenGL) to get 3D working
> - JVM, JRE overhead is considerable
> Ideally, we would have a GUI wrapper that provides good access to  
> Cocoa on OS X. We like Cocoa now ;-) Cocoa may also be a way to move  
> to iPhone iPod Touch. What would fit our needs the best would just  
> be anything working on Windows making simplifying creating  
> compatible, Cocoa-esque wrappers for Windows. An officially Apple  
> supported tool such as this (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/A35C23B9-BD22-4478-BC30-4111CFC360B5.html 
> ) would be ideal.
> Alex
> On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:44 AM, Gary Byers wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, Ron Garret wrote:
>>> On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:30 AM, Alexander Repenning wrote:
>>>> This may be a good moment to discuss some of the ideas regarding  
>>>> the creation of LUI, the "Lisp User Interface as a cross  
>>>> platform, but Mac first" open source GUI tool.
>>>> At this point a very early prototype exists for CCLmac Intel/PPC  
>>>> with classes implemented in Cocoa including: buttons, windows,  
>>>> sliders, labels, editable text, images, sound, speech, Web  
>>>> browser view, OpenGL, ..
>>>> The main question is how to bring this to Windows or more  
>>>> specifically to CCL windows. Who has some ideas, time to hack  
>>>> stuff, experience with Windows lisp hacking etc. Some ideas  
>>>> tossed around so far are: Cocotron, GNUstep, native win32, .NET,
>>> http://cappuccino.org/
>>> rg
>> Another candidate that's worth looking at is SWT
>> (<http://www.eclipse.org/swt/>).
>> Some advantages:
>> - it's mature, relatively featureful, and supports native look-and- 
>> feel
>>   on a wide variety of platforms
>> - it's largely implemented in native (non-Java) code; performance  
>> issues
>>   that may have affected other Java UI toolkits apparently don't  
>> affect
>>   SWT
>> - there's a small army of people working on it and there are many
>>   commercial and open-source projects (including Eclipse) that  
>> depend on
>>   it
>> Some disadvantages:
>> - SWT's OSX support is still 32-bit and Carbon based, though the  
>> intent is
>>   to provide 64-bit (I think ...) Cocoa support (I'm sure) in the  
>> next
>>   release
>> - CCL's support for Java is embryonic;  it's not clear if or how it'd
>>   be possible to do some of the things (subclassing foreign classes  
>> at
>>   runtime, etc.) that're possible in ObjC, and it'd probably  
>> require some
>>   thought to determine how best to integrate Java and CCL.
>> What support is there (in the trunk) is a port of Rich Hickey's  
>> 'jfli'
>> Java<->CL interface which seems complete enough to run a very simple
>> SWT demo.  (Except for the 64-bit OSX issues, this demo should work  
>> on
>> all platforms that CCL 1.3 will run on, assuming that the SWT classes
>> and shared libs can be found.)  How near or how far that is from
>> providing a useful and usable portability layer (does "write once,  
>> run
>> anywhere" sound familiar ?) is hard to know.
> Prof. Alexander Repenning
> University of Colorado
> Computer Science Department
> Boulder, CO 80309-430
> vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf
> <ATT00001.txt>


Chris McClelland
Sonic Arts Research Centre
Queens University Belfast
Tel: 02890974445
Email: c.mcclelland at qub.ac.uk

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