[Openmcl-devel] The Objective-C Bridge and Clozure CL IDE with Linux and GNUstep
lassiter at christianfellowships.info
Thu Jun 18 02:09:36 UTC 2015
About six months ago I move from OS X development to linux. I am retired
and on a limited income. I had intended to upgrade my mac mini, but
(like most of the world) am very unhappy with the current generation of
minis. My other reasonably fast machine was set up as as hackintosh, but
was never quite stable enough. Hence my move to linux Mint on that
machine. I like Mint.
Here is the tl;dr version: I am going with qtools even though I hate C++.
Moving to linux, I faced the problem of finding a workable gui solution.
When I inquired at my local Lisp users group, practically all the young
guys said "do a web interface". For various reasons I really, really
hate the idea that everything in the modern world should be a web app.
After some not very "scientific" investigation, I have committed to
attempting to use qtools (here: http://shinmera.github.io/qtools).
I spent quite a lot of time investigating Ltk, and various gtk bindings.
Actually Ltk is pretty good in some ways (easy to get started, fair
documentation). But I don't like the look of it, and I also don't really
care for the architecture.
I would have preferred gtk (because C), but there is a lot of criticism
of the way gtk has evolved at the hands of its development team. (See
this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0). Also
there appears to be a reasonable chance that my apps will run on all
three of linux, windows, and OS X with qt, although I don't really know
about ccl on windows.
I have the same problem with qtools, commonqt etc. as I had with the
cocoa bindings in ccl. (This may just be my idiosyncracy, whatever.)
That is, I don't feel comfortable using either one without a fairly good
knowledge of the "natural ecosystems" these things live in, i.e. Obj-C
and C++. I spent quite a long time getting a kind of minimal knowledge
of Obj-C, and didn't mind it too much. I have spent the best part of the
past month learning C++ and Qt in the C++ environment. I just /hate/
C++, so it is a struggle. But Qt itself is pretty good. I have even
found myself using the qt IDE (qt creator) in preference to emacs for
C++ and C work. This is a kind of milestone for me; I was ok with xcode
but am really most comfortable with emacs.)
The problem with all of these things in the CL world (and also in, e.g.
Haskell, which I like) is that despite the best intentions of the
developers (often one guy), they/he/shee inevitably move on to other
things. To me that means that one must pretty much face up to debugging
and maintaining the software largely on one's own. (Maybe not so much
the case with cocoa + ccl, which seems to have a somewhat better life
expectancy.) Hence my dive into C++.
This is a problem for anyone (like me) whose primary interest is /not/
development tools. However, I have for the time being decided that I
simply cannot give up either CL or non-web gui, and so I will bite the
As for hating C++, I am not the least doctrinaire about programming
languages. I generally accept that a language is a good one if people
manage to produce stuff I like or find useful in that language. However,
i have returned to C++ for the first time since I bought the first
edition of Soustrup's book in 1985. I was repelled by the language then,
and still think it is just an unholy mess. When I give myself a break
from qt and C++ to do some lisp, it feels marvellous. So it remains to
be seen whether my /resolve/ will /dissolve/, LOL.
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