[Openmcl-devel] I made simple swank helper.

Gary Byers gb at clozure.com
Sun May 15 11:37:56 PDT 2016


I didn't see the message from you (presumably because of problems with 
my spam filter), but I did
see (and hopefully can reply to) this reply.

As far as you know, would people who use SLIME with CCL and want to 
avoid at least many of the
problems with :communication-style :spawn be able to do so by using 
SLIME-REPL, at least until
someone cam figure out how to make SWANK-HELPER easier to load?

(asked in very genuine ignorance of what "SLIME-REPL" is ..)

On 05/14/2016 05:47 PM, Dmitry Igrishin wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 2016-05-14 18:37 GMT+03:00 Bill St. Clair <wws at clozure.com 
> <mailto:wws at clozure.com>>:
>     I finally looked at the swank-helper package, and played with my
>     Slime a little bit to determine why I’ve never noticed the
>     problem. It’s my style of using Slime. I evaluate random forms in
>     the *slime-repl ccl* buffer, which uses a single thread. The only
>     evaluation I do from other lisp buffers is recompiling defining
>     forms in file buffers. For that it very rarely matters that a new
>     thread is spawned each time. So rarely that I have never had a
>     problem with it.
> I don't tried the another IDE for Lisp called SLY - 
> https://github.com/capitaomorte/sly
> but it looks interesting at the first glance. I'll try it at leisure.
>     On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Gary Byers <gb at clozure.com
>     <mailto:gb at clozure.com>> wrote:
>         On 05/13/2016 04:03 PM, Dmitry Igrishin wrote:
>>         2016-05-13 20:02 GMT+03:00 Gary Byers <gb at clozure.com
>>         <mailto:gb at clozure.com>>:
>>             I don't use SLIME at all, largely because of the
>>             :COMMUNICATION-STYLE :SPAWN issues
>>             that Park Sungmin's patch tries to address and avoid.  I
>>             have always assumed that people
>>             who do use SLIME with CCL either don't notice those
>>             issues or don't care about them as much
>>             as I do, and that people who use SLIME with other
>>             implementations don't experience the same
>>             issues because of (possibly very subtle)
>>             implementation-dependent details related to how
>>             threads and dynamic/special variable bindings interact
>>             with each other.  People do run into
>>             those issues fairly often, and my explanations of those
>>             issues seem to fall on deaf (or at
>>             least very bored) ears.
>>         Gary, could you explain please your workflow on hacking Lisp
>>         without using the SLIME? I've
>>         always considered it as a de facto standard free IDE for Lisp.
>         I usually us ilisp. which only works at all under xemacs. 
>         ilisp development nominally stopped about
>         10-12 years ago, and whether or not xemacs is still being
>         developed is unclear.  I don't think that
>         using ilisp is a desirable  option for anyone (including
>         me)There have been other things that have bothered me about
>         SLIME (as well the communication-style/spawn issues), but I
>         would move away from ilisp in a heartbeat
>         if not for those issues.
>         I -think- that most people would agree that selecting and
>         executing a set of lisp forms from an editor buffer
>         should ideally be equivalent to (though perhaps more
>         convenient than) executing the same set of forms by typing
>         them directly into a REPL in some sort of terminal window. 
>         When the forms in question depend on and/or modify
>         the dynamic execution context (thread, and thread-specific
>         dynamic variable bindings) in which they are executed, this
>         may not be true
>         Whether or not someone is affected by these issues and the
>         degree to which they are likely depends on their editing
>         style and habits; people may find that it simply works better
>         to select and execute an entire PROGN than it does to
>         select and execute each of that PROGN's subforms, even if they
>         may not be entirely clear on on why this is the case.
>         see (for instance)
>         <https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html>
>         <https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-November/011091.html>,
>         where that
>         message was part of a discussion about apparent differences
>         between what the language spec says and what some
>         widely-used QuickLisp package expects.
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