[Openmcl-devel] talk on CCL

Sat Oct 27 08:08:27 PDT 2018

 It's quite an entertaining and also illuminating talk! I don't have chance
to see a lisp machine, but MCL is just great. Also happy to have a
knowledge in Clozure CL's GC and future plans. I'm quite busy in recent job
in a startup and looking for a new role that hopefully have more time to
contribute to lisp and open source. I learned a few new skills this year,
for every thing I learn I always think about how lisp can benefit from this
ideas or similar feature can be implemented in lisp. I think a not
difficult, but definitely quite helpful thing to common lisp community will
be an excellent (command line) build tool. I expect it expose asdf and
quicklisp's feautures, with a few more like local package versioning,
create project from template (quickproject, but provide more useful project
templates), etc. It should have at least the feautres as leiningen in cli,
and having lisp script driven build like boot-clj (maybe just a few more
asdf extensions?) And as easy as a lisp programmer can only remember a few
command to start a new project, install/update dependency, run, test,
package a project. The best of this is rust's cargo, people can use it
fluently in a few minutes, quite pleasant to start a rust project and,
then, painful to write rust code :) We have a few quicklisp projects doing
some of task (roswell, qlot), but they're not well integrated, as easy as a
few commands, and flexible enough to customize any task with lisp code.
With a tool like this, not only programmers of other lanaguages can start
with write some lisp code without much pain, but also it'll ease our
workflow, make existing library more reliable (by more easilly to add test
and local dependency with version), well integrated with currently
mainstream cli based deployments (docker, kubernetes, gcloud/aws, ci/cd
tools). And this will make common lisp a "modern" choice to write
microservices and so more people will write more lisp libraries. I think
compare to it's difficulty and the benefit it's worth doing.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:20 PM Robert Goldman <rpgoldman at sift.info> wrote:

> I'm sure that MCL played a role, but I remember Symbolics and Gensym
> cratering in about 1987 or soon after. And I think that Sun, Apollo, etc.,
> general-purpose machines but not personal computers, were substantially
> involved. Lucid on a SPARCstation could give the Symbolics a run for its
> money (although the development environment was decidedly inferior).
>
> Cheers,
> R
>
> On 22 Oct 2018, at 9:33, Bruce O'Neel wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> At a past job I used MCL on my Powerbook 540c upgraded to the
> underperforming PPC 603e running at 100mhz for personal development and
> experimentation.  Production was on TI Explorers.  My powerbook was about
> 2x faster than the Explorers until it ran out of memory.   To be fairer to
> the Explorers this was about 10 years after they were made, but it wasn't
> like that 603e was winning any benchmark races either.
>
> cheers
>
> bruce
>
> *22 October 2018 06:31 Chris Hanson <cmhanson at eschatologist.net
> <cmhanson at eschatologist.net>> wrote:*
>
> As someone who’s studied their history, I seriously think that CCL/MCL is
> an under-acknowledged participant in the death of Lisp Machines: When you
> could use a Macintosh for development nearly as effectively as a Lisp
> Machine for barely a tenth the cost (or even less), and deploy on Macintosh
> as well, why spend all that money on specialized hardware? Especially since
> by the 1990s the Lisp Machines were falling far behind on performance.
>
> -- Chris
>
> > On Oct 19, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Ron Garret wrote:
> >
> > " an intrepid band of hackers formed a little company called Coral
> Software. And Coral Common Lisp was their product that they managed to put
> together, and it came out in 1987, and … they had a Common Lisp (it didn’t
> have CLOS, so it was CLTL1), [which] ran on a 1MB Macintosh Plus, this
> incredibly weak hardware. So that was a real accomplishment.”
> >
> > Not only did they have a CL that ran on a 1MB Mac Plus, it had an IDE!
> And not only did it have an IDE, it had one of the best IDEs ever. You can
> still run it on emulators today, and it is still usable — even competitive
> — today. It had an interactive interface builder that is still to this day
> superior to anything I have seen anywhere. I still miss it. (I used the
> original CCL to do my masters thesis back in 1987 and it spoiled me on IDEs
> for life. I’ve been a grumpy old man ever since.)
> >
> > I would rank the original CCL as a technical achievement on a par with
> the Macintosh itself.
> >
> > rg
> >
> >
> > On Oct 18, 2018, at 5:12 PM, R. Matthew Emerson wrote:
> >
> >> I was invited to give a talk at this year’s European Lisp Symposium in
> Marbella, Spain. It was a great conference. I highly recommend that you try
> to attend next the next one if you possibly can. It will be in Genoa,
> Italy. See https://european-lisp-symposium.org.
> >>
> >> Anyway, I prepared a web site that contains a video of the talk and
> also a written transcript with slides included in the text in the
> appropriate places.
> >>
> >> The link is http://thisoldlisp.com/talks/els-2018/
> >>
> >> It’s not really very technical in nature (it’s meant to be entertaining
> and encouraging), but maybe some of you would enjoy it.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Openmcl-devel mailing list
> >> Openmcl-devel at clozure.com
> >> https://lists.clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
Sincerely,
Bo
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