[Openmcl-devel] “Prehistoric” MCL

Sat Mar 5 09:30:06 PST 2022

I wrote the drag-and-drop.lisp contribution for Fred, back when drag & drop was new.  The ability to create a mixin class with that level of integration was absolutely amazing.

Good times!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan S. Camper
Thaumaturge

> On Mar 5, 2022, at 10:48 AM, Ralf Stoye <stoye at stoye.com> wrote:
> 
> MCL had multithreading long before the OS had it: 
> It was a cooperative Multithreading build on stack-groups: the compiler inserted checks and task-switches; there existed run-reasons and arrest-reasons; 
> you could even adjust how gentle it should be in Multifinder regarding other applications (something like *eventloop-ticks-in-background* ? (Memory is Fading)
> A remarkable piece of Software!
> I started with 1.3 when it was delivered by Apple (1988?)
> Last Version i bought was 4.2 (PPC i think)
> I used fred (the editor) to implement a Software for a historian who had to analyse about 100 Interviews, each about 50 Pages. She had a hierarchical List of Topics regarding different aspects of the live of these persons and could assign these topics to pieces of these textdocuments and thanks to freds notion of buffer-marks, you could even edit the documents without destroing your marked "text-blocks" ; Finally an export of a really big Index showing reasons for Arrest, work, living, of the victims was created in rtf Format and used to Document the History of "Die Frauen von Hoheneck": A group of Woman arrested for being not Conform to DDR politics. The created material was used to write two Books: one for a historic correct analysation of the Topic (a German "Enquete-Kommission"), and a novel about theese People ("Die Spur der roten Sphinx"). I learned a lot about german and russian history during that work, because the historian was a really smart Person, and i learned a lot about using MCL to its limits.
> It was really fun to develop in MCL, i never found a replacement :-/
> 
> Am 05.03.22 um 17:17 schrieb mikel evins:
>> My memory is that the UI framework in Object Lisp and, later, CLOS, was much easier and more convenient to work with than other ways of building classic Mac user interfaces. One reason is that you could build up a UI interactively in real time by evaluating Lisp expressions at the Listener. After the transition to CLOS, you could make a working window that responded appropriately to mouse events by saying
>> 
>>   (make-instance 'window)
>> 
>> I don't remember the exact Object Lisp syntax, but it was similarly simple.
>> 
>> The Mac got threads in System 7, in the form of the Thread Manager. If I remember right, MCL/CCL didn't get thread support until the OpenMCL fork, though you could have used MCL's toolbox interface to talk to the Thread Manager before that.
>> 
>> Before OSX the Mac system was a cooperative multitasking system using what is nowadays called green threads.
>> 
>>> On Mar 5, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Tim McNerney <mc at media.mit.edu <mailto:mc at media.mit.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for pointers to the “digital orphans” web museums. 
>>> Which brings me back to my other question…
>>> Some of us remember that building a “well behaved GUI” for the Mac was a pain to code.
>>> Did ObjectLisp and successors make this any easier with their OOness?
>>> Could I implement widgets that responded to mouse clicks “on their own,”
>>> or was there always editing of the dreaded “main event loop” for each new widget?
>>> Some examples, if handy, would be good fodder for conversation.
>>> Lastly, when did MacOS get full-fledged threads?
>>> Or, since I’m taking to MCL devs, when did CCL start supporting threads?
>>> 
>>> --Tim
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 4, 2022, at 13:23, Jeremy Jones <jaj at clozure.com <mailto:jaj at clozure.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks Gene! They appear to have disk images of lots of old stuff.
>>>> 
>>>> They even have MCL 1.3 (pre-CLOS)!
>>>> https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp <https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've been wanting to play with Object Lisp. A weekend project! 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022, 11:37 AM Gene Z. Ragan <gene at semitone.audio <mailto:gene at semitone.audio>> wrote:
>>>> The Macintosh Garden is a nice resource for classic software releases.
>>>> 
>>>> https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-common-lisp-20 <https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-common-lisp-20>
>>>> https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/pearl-lisp <https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/pearl-lisp>
>>>> https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp <https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-allegro-common-lisp>
>>>> https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/xlisp <https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/xlisp>
>>>> 
>>>> You may be able to find what you are looking for there.
>>>> 
>>>> Gene
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 10:26 PM, Tim McNerney <mc at media.mit.edu <mailto:mc at media.mit.edu>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Motivated by my recent purchase of a refurbished Mac Classic (*),
>>>>> I am searching for a couple of types of “prehistoric” software. 
>>>>> 1) 68000 MCL that runs in 4MB of RAM and a tiny B/W screen. (**)
>>>>> 2) examples of early Mac apps written in MCL with decent UIs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> (*) With a BlueSCSI SSD instead of a fragile HDD.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is the rumor true that Coral Software delivered a complete Common Lisp 
>>>>> compressed onto a single 9cm floppy? (3 1/2”)
>>>>> 
>>>>> (**) I’m not looking for one of these physical floppies. 
>>>>> 9cm floppies were notorious, even brand new, of not being archival. 
>>>>> Some sort of disk image would be better. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Tim
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> https://lists.clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel <https://lists.clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/openmcl-devel>
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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